A protest march in Cork today against the Israeli invasion of Gaza. Plenty of photographers covering the event, I wouldn’t be surprised to see photos appear on Flickr soon.
A leaflet urged the reader to boycott Israeli products and listed many well known brands. Unfortunately if I was to do that I wouldn’t be able to use my Intel powered laptop, and I wouldn’t be able to use WordPress because Israeli citizens have contributed to it. Oh wait, you probably shouldn’t even use the Internet. Log off now please.
At the end of the march, the speaker pictured above told the crowd that there would be another march next weekend. Ominously he said all shops in Cork should not sell Israeli produce and whatever it takes will be done to force them to do that. He added that only lawful pressure would be applied, that “we must stay on this side of the law”.
How is that really going to hurt Israel? The produce is already bought and paid for by the retailer. Irish shop keepers are reeling from the worst Christmas sales in years and they want to put more pressure on them? You’re only going to hurt the local economy if you go ahead with that boycott. Insane!
I have so much sympathy for the people in Gaza and Israel. Innocent people get killed and maimed on both sides and the cycle of violence goes on and on and on and …
Donncha, boycotting the Israeli state does not mean breaking off engagement with the people of Israel or abandoning WordPress simply because Israelis contributed to the effort.
Naomi Klein wrote a very good article on this in today’s Guardian: Enough. It’s time for a boycott.
I see Jim Bowen is still up to his old tricks. Maybe if he spent more time preparing his course work instead of peddling propaganda, the Computer Science undergraduate degree course in UCC wouldn’t be so shit. If you thought listening to him on a soap box for a few minutes was bad, try two years worth of lectures. He managed to incorporate the Palestinian/Israeli troubles into his php/xml lectures and lab exercises. And made a point of announcing any upcoming Pro Palestinian lectures being held, BEFORE our lecture with him had ended.
And people wonder why I wiped my arse with my Bachelors cert after I got it.
This is Salam Pax (aka the Baghdad Blogger) signing off with my famous catchphrase “well my jaw dropped open and my spit dried up”. Allu Akbar!
Well, I’m not even going to bother with how many lies it contains.
But I’ll tell you that. You should really check who reports what. If you can check who are the reporters you read, you can check who owns the news paper and if you go farther enough, you might find the reason. There is someone who gains from making Israel look bad.
P.S.
It’s finally [after ~8-9 years of getting bombed from Gaza] a war. This means, that Israel tries to attack the enemy. But with an exception for good and bad. Israel doesn’t just bomb everything [like you might have thought], they try to aim their attacks only on terrorists. You can’t blame one for hitting citizens or kids when the foe is hiding behind them. Think about it.
If you think it’s wrong, then you are a hypocrite. Because if your country would enter a war, you wouldn’t care about citizens on the other side at all. All you’ll care about it winning the war. Check your past and the entire worlds past.
A balanced appraisal of the situation is required. It is a sad situation that nobody wants, war is hell and I say this as an ex regular force soldier. As a requirement to understanding the middle-east situation you/I must understand the language of the people who are at war with Israel. If an Iranian Cleric was to televise a speech would you understand what was being said or would you have to trust a translator. Probably like myself, the answer would be “please translate”, if you ask this question, like I did then this web site may be of some help. No doubt in this world of propaganda and misinformation, this will be seen as the same, nevertheless it is required viewing so you and your readers can make an informed descision about the Israel Hamas (was PLO) situation. http://www.memritv.org Duncan McFarlane.
No offense Donncha, but think ahead. If you stop buying Israeli produce, the retailers won’t buy any more Israeli produce. They’re hardly going to leave the shelves empty, they’ll just buy produce from another location. donnacha’s point is well made too.
There’s wrongs on both sides here, and the actions of Hamas are just as unforgiveable as the Israeli army, but we should take any action we can, and boycotting Israeli products where possible is one possibly solution. Even a partial boycott is better than inaction.
If you have a problem with the person making the argument, make the rebuttal about the person…
adam
Sorry about the wonky formatting, lost an em somewhere!
Go Israel !!!
@bug – Just to clarify, no-one is condoning what Hamas are doing, it is 100% wrong, but Israel’s reaction is out of proportion and, pretty clearly, aimed at both cowing the incoming Obama administration and shoring up the vote in their own upcoming election.
You say “You can’t blame one for hitting citizens or kids when the foe is hiding behind them. Think about it“.
Well, actually, yes, we can blame them because states are meant to act to a higher standard.
@Duncan – Hamas are not and were not ever the PLO, the two are polar opposites.
The PLO is a a multi-party confederation that includes Fatah, which is the sworn enemy of Hamas and not recognized as a terrorist organization by any government.
When in power under Yasser Arafat, the PLO was center-left, not radical or notably religious, and agreed to far more concessions to Israel than the religious extremists in Hamas ever would. Many even considered Arafat, despite all the bluster, to be a puppet of Israel and the West.
The tragedy is that the Israelis, despite having a great a great deal on the table, could not resist squeezing for more and more, causing the Palestinians to lose their faith in the moderates and eventually vote in the extremists.
donnacha, I understand this, however as they were there before the hamas and they were until Mr Arafat was allegedly terminated, a threat to Israel, so for this reason I felt it pertinant to reference them, my error otherwise. Also and please indicate where I am wrong, but where does it say the Hamas were elected by the Palestinian people, as I have been led to understand they usurped power. An analogy. If you are diagnosed with skin cancer, the standard treatment is to use a surgical scalpel to remove the cancer and then to radiate the area with all the weaponry available which is usually in the form of radiation therapy. This sadly kills not only any remaing cancer cells but also many healthy cells surrounding the immediate area. It is a harsh treatment I agree but at the moment there is no other treatment for cancer available. We cannot reason with it, threaten it ro beg it to desist as it is blind to any other reason except to do what it is programmed to do. Are not the Hamas doing exactly that which some Irish people did (and I am sure still do in certain areas) and that is to practise a fireside policy of hate. Is this not a form of programming that will go on and on and on. The Hamas have rejected a joint French/Egyptian peace Initiative as it is not in the interests of the Hamas’s objective. The Hamas objectives are the same as the fundamentalist Muslim factions and that is the total extermination of the Israeli people. We know the Israel objective is to protect themselves, justifiable considering the said threats. These are my opinions only and I thank the democratic process that enables us to debate these issues without the threat or promise of physical violence that some societys do not have. Sláinte.
I agree with most of what you wrote Donacha, except for:
Donnacha wrote “Fatah, which is …not recognized as a terrorist organization by any government”
The Israeli government and the US government consider Fatah’s armed wing – the Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade – to be a terrorist organisation and it carries out suicide bombings and rocket attacks.
Which is why its so ludicrous that they talk to Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah now but won’t accept Hamas’ offers of negotiations, even after Khaled Meshal said a Palestinian state could co-exist with an Israeli one.
Other Duncan McFarlane – I’m sure some Hamas members have the views you describe but their political leaders dont. Both Ismail Haniyeh , the elected Palestinian PM and Hamas leader and Khaled Meshal have said Palestinian and Israeli states could co-exist if the majority of Palestinians voted in a referendum for such an agreement (polls show they would)
Ordinary Fatah members also say that Fatah lost the 2006 elections because their senior leadership is corrupt and takes aid money and taxes meant to pay and feed their people while most Palestinians live in poverty. They call the leadership that arrived from Tunis with Arafat “the Tunis mafia”.
(this isnt the same Duncan McFarlane as above btw – i’m the one with this website and blog )
Seems strange replying to a post of the same name, but hey, its a good name. Duncan, it would be wonderful if both Israel and Palestine could live peacefully as neighbours, re (polls show they would). Should this be the case I have 2 questions. 1.why has the referendum not been initiated and 2. why have the missiles continued to be fired into Israel. By not initiating the first and maintaining the second surely it would seem peace is the last item on their agenda. It seems to me that the resumption of the missiles into Israel, after the ceasefire expired, was a clear message of this. In terms of collatoral damage it would seem the Hamas have made a grave miscalculation meaning they have forgotten the lessons learnt in the 6 day war of 1967. If Egypt had not amassed their army on the Israel border their would be peace in Gaza, why you ask, simple, Israels decisive offence against this significant military threat on their border resulted in the Israeli occupation of Gaza, West Bank etc. If the true objective of the Hamas was peace it would already have been estableshed, why isnt it. Duncan McFarlane
It seems strange replying to a post of the same name but hey, its a good name.
Duncan, It would be wonderful (of course) if both Palestine and Israel could live peacefully as neighbours. You cite peace would be allowed by the Hamas “..if the majority of Palestinians voted in a referendum for such an agreement (polls show they would)”, I have two questions about this, 1. Why has the referendum not been initiated and 2. Why did the Hamas resume hostilities after the expiration of the ceasefire. It would seem, at least to me, that peace was the last item on their
agenda. This calculated move to resume hostilities has resulted in a significant miscalculation, incurring massive collateral damage to themselves and sadly, the Palestinian people. This tells me they have completely forgotten the Egypt-Israel war of 1967 and of the decisive response by the Israeli Army. Sadly, if it was not for this war, in all probability there would be peace in the region now. Why? simple, as a result of Egypt amassing their
army on the Israeli border Israel would not have responded with such effective precision as it did against this significant military threat which resulted in the Israeli occupation of Gaza the West Bank etc.
If peace was the genuine objective of the Hamas, surely it would have been established already, why has it not?
Duncan McFarlane.
red faced here, not supposed to have two posts, I believed the first post did not go through, and sadly having not save it, re wrote it, sigh. donnacha, feel free to remove one.
The same protests are going on INSIDE Israel, as they do all the time when there are troubles. Unfortunately, inside Gaza, they can’t protest in Israel’s favor, unlike within Israel.
Having lived there for many years, this breaks my heart from so many angles. Thanks for the local coverage. It’s good to see other areas get involved in international politics. When is the next protest scheduled for Darfur, Chechnya, Zimbabwe, and Myanmar? 😀
I was at the march in Dublin last week for the same thing.
I don’t think that Israel are right. I don’t think that Hamas are 100% right either. But to a certain extent I can see where Hamas are coming from. I don’t agree at all with violence to achieve a political goal but you have to look at the background to this situation. The Palestinians were kicked off there own land after the second world war and for many of them life hasn’t been the same since.
Israel has the support of America and other countries so it is far superior in many ways to Palestine. Taking all of this into consideration you can understand why Hamas are doing what they are – fighting a WAR against rhe Israelies.
The one thing that I don’t think anyone can understand is killing of the innocent. It is happening on both sides and it is ridiculous. They are just going down to a lower and lower level.
Hi – Duncan,
I’m not trying to justify Hamas or any other group firing rockets into Israel. That’s not justified and it kills civilians – and even if its a fraction of the number killed by Israeli forces it’s still wrong.
There are at least three reasons the rockets are still falling though – one is that the Israeli government (and the Quartet backing it) refuse to accept that Hamas are the elected and legitimate Palestinian government, despite EU election monitors saying the elections were free and fair. The second is the continuing blockade of Gaza. The third is the Israeli government’s interpretation of ceasefire – which they claim allows them to continue targeting Hamas leaders as “terrorists” during ceasefires, usually by airstrikes which frequently kill civilian bystanders too.
All of these things destroy Hamas’ political leaders’ authority over their armed wing – the Qassam Brigades, some of whom disowned their political leaders after they went into coalition with Fatah (who lost the 2006 elections) to try and get the blockade lifted. Israel and its allies refused even to recognise the coalition government though and preferred to arm Fatah’s armed wing to attempt a coup against Hamas, which succeeded in the West Bank but failed in Gaza.
See this IHT article and the sources for this page for links to sources
P.S i double post by accident a lot too – i wouldnt worry about it
it’s a well organized step taken by the jewhaters, stomping their boots right to the good old times, where it was normal to boycott the Jews, point the fingers at them, always one step before burning their stores and looting their belongings. (THEIR belongings as in “the jew cannot have any belonging because all he own is stolen from US, the non-Jews”). walking the streets waving islamic battle flags is one step before launching attacks, anybody denying this lives in a nice and safe little place and should consider this great luck – and an achievement by the citizens of that region. just read what is on the green banners and it will put a seed of fear into your soul that will keep hatching every time you see one. islamist banners are green but it is not an Irish green background, and neither do they share a similar past. the Irish had their wars of religion and for freedom and it appears that instead of harvesting the fruits of a true peace that is young and strong the war monglers among the Irish are looking for their revival of hate. and he who hates the jews, or plays out those that hate them by their religion, he to will be hated by those that can only create hate in others – for others, and beyond: mankind. salam.
And there was me thinking that “salam” meant peace.
adam /rolls eyes
For you who do not understand what going on with the conflict between Israel and Palestine, please do more research. Don’t blame Hamas for everything. Not all Jews are so busy trying to attack the Palestine’s, Israeli Zionist are. They have been trying so hard to colonize Palestine lands for hundreds of years. And they still does. They will kill anyone who stands in their way, Moslem or non-Moslem. Checked again who died among the bombings, some of them are Christians.
There is no right or wrong, but there are all kinds of notions in the international public which are incorrect.
1. There was never any country called Palestine. The residents of this land, ruled by Turkey or GB later, were tribes and villages dwellers with no central government. At best – the elders of a village would have solved internal disputes. As there was never such a country, it can not be “released”. It was never there to be released.
2. Minutes after the declaration of the Israeli country by the UN, the newly declared country was attacked by forces both from surrounding countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan) and by clans of Arabs from the inside. Some were forced out, some were killed, as it happens in wars, and some remained. Most of those who fled, did it on their own accord. They were hardly ever driven away from their land.
3. The current leaders of the Palestine government require two things which cannot be accepted by Israel. Everything else can be negotiated:
a) Jerusalem, which has a tremendous historical value and religious value, should be split, and they want to control the older part of it.
b) All Arabs who left since 1948 should be allowed to return and take their lands back, either if they have sold them (and many did), if they were driven away or if they fled for themselves. Not only them, but their children and grandchildren, etc. It means that, potentially, 10-15 million Arabs will arrive into a country which includes currently about 6-7 million residents. This will make this country just another Arab country – just like these around.
The Hamas is a terror group. You can call them freedom fighters, but they are not. No one is clean here, but their actions lead to the status in Gaza area. Shooting at Israeli cities, attempting suicidal bombing (you can only imagine how complicated it is to stop a suicidal bomber), etc. There were years where a bus or two would have been blown sky-high in the middle of the day. 10, 20, 30 dead civilians each time.
Of course – in your normal and quiet countries this is not the case, unless, of course, you cause the Muslims in your country to be angry for some reason.
You want to boycott? Great. Do so for the oil you so enjoy, as Iran, one of the leading oil supplier is attempting to create an a-bomb. This country is the founder and sponsor of most terror (sorry – freedom fighting) in the western world. They sponsor the Hizbullah and the Hamas, and few more.
I didn’t see you offer a boycott after three years of an Israeli soldier being held in unknown conditions, because the red cross is not allowed to visit him, in violation of international law. I didn’t see you attempt a boycott on Lebanon-made products when the Hizbulla attached with military-class missiles large civilian cities few years ago.
No one is clean, but check what you are being fed before you swallow. This is my best advice to you. Check what really happens there. Look how the “poor” Hamas treats Arab civilians inside Gaza area. Look at how they surround themselves with kids so Israeli forces will not attack (and Israeli forces always attempt to harm no civilians). Look at how they booby-trap schools, so that the press impact will be larger when students get hit. Look at it with your own eyes. Judge for yourselves. You will see the evil in that situation. If you really think you have a solution – I’m sure some will like to hear about it. I will, for sure.
Ez
Its a twisted situation that seems to constantly descend into chaos just when it seems to be looking up. Violence is hard to forget – just look at Northern Ireland this week and one will realize that some people will never forget.